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Tuesday, April 12, 2011

Концепт "Континент Россия" глазами и словами некоторых европейцев

Я уж думал, что дискуссия о континенте Россия закончена - см. "Русским европейцам и русским азиатам, а также евразийцам о континенте Россия".

Но вот некоторые европейцы очнулись и попробовали дать информационный бой. В боях таких проверяется концептуальная прочность, что хорошо и полезно. Потом, как Вы увидите, дело не в количестве оголтелых оппонентов и в их лживых высказываниях, а в том, что в правде сила. На этом и надо стоять, вежливо и твердо. Глупость в открытой дискуссии каждого видна, за что и люблю Интернет! Да и русский народный спорт - один в поле воин - самое то, для тренировки в усложненных иноязычием условиях.

В итоге, оголтелых одернул их голландский шеф, управляющий группой "CEE Group for business professionals" и сами они вынуждены были извиниться.

Самое главное - концепт "Континент Россия" оказался непоколебим.

Литовско-румынские оппоненты, как я понял, ничего против континента Россия (Европа периферия континента Россия, равно как и Азия) не имеют, если русские будут самодержавны и закончат игры с англо-германо-французским коммунизмом-социализмом. Дадим им скидку, они боятся России (у румына кто-то был в сибирском Гулаге, не из под Сталинграда ли туда попал?), но Россия - щедрая душа(!) и достойна быть континентом с Румынией, Литвой и прочими странами на своей территории.

Включаю казачью песню Игоря Растеряева и излагаю подробнее:



Дискуссию см. здесь. Там есть кнопка "Show more comments" для показа следующих частей дискуссии.

Печально, что зачинщик продолжения дискуссии исчез со своими комментариями - либо сам удалил, либо ему помогли, но вот в почте у меня он остался - советский, т.е. литовский парень Ремигиюс (да простится мне такая фамильярность):



Дальше привожу значимые, на мой взгляд, цитаты. Переведите каким-нибудь переводчиком. Лично я весело провел вчера время:

""Regarding communist block ... you know, communism and socialism were invented in the UK, France and Germany." - Nikolay

OK. So what? I didn't hear of communist block around UK, France or Germany. Sorry, may I missed anything? ;)
Posted by Remigijus Gineitis

Nikolay Kryachkov LION TopLinked nkryachkov at gmail.com • http://www.socialistinternational.org/

SOCIALIST INTERNATIONAL, MARITIME HOUSE, OLD TOWN, CLAPHAM, LONDON SW4 0JW, UNITED KINGDOM

It is not around them, it is inside them, Remigijus, and they "sell" it for a long time.

WOW! Impressed. These tiny organizations (relatively to Russian analogs) forced Russia to kill dozens of millions inside and around country? They are real monsters and bastards! UK is in big danger... Thank you for informing. Now I will know who is guilty for communism block discussed. Sorry for my ignorance.
Posted by Remigijus Gineitis

Nikolay Kryachkov LION TopLinked nkryachkov at gmail.com • You probably not aware how ideas and money work. For your self-education:


WALL STREET AND
THE RISE OF HITLER

http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/


WALL STREET
AND THE
BOLSHEVIK
REVOLUTION

http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/bolshevik_revolution/

Catalin Lascu • Nikolay, we got your logic - so based on your postings,

a) for communism are guilty primarily the western countries, because they invented the doctrine and didn't react in due time to its expansion in USSR and further (with the last part I agree)...and the victims, millions of people former communist block countries, because they accepted it under the tanks, under marionette regimes and under terror.
b) CEE should be considered a periphery of Russia and possibly "report" again to the center, i.e. Moscow.

It doesn't matter much that you ignorantly confuse socialism's theory and some lunatic current followers with the bloody practice of criminal regimes (currently aknowledged as such by their own countries, including Russia), or you confuse the victims with the executioners...or the future with the past.

I believe that opinions like yours are not only part of the past that we want to avoid, but they are also considered extremist if not illegal in most of our countries. I therefore consider your postings unappropriate to the spirit of LinkedIn and of the group, and insulting for us.

The question is : what is your purpose? just trying to make conversation , make yourself relevant to the group, or what? I see your represent an official state institution of Russian Federation - is therefore your point of view an official one that your mission is to convey thru social media? Because this is something that we really must understand and I am ready to ask your institution if it shares your opinions.

Catalin Lascu • Peter, I agree fully with you on politics...even if we are not here 100% for business topics.

Honestly I never heard of Tip O'Neill, mea culpa, but I consider his saying just a saying, in my opinion, completely wrong in today's global environment. By the way, my gasoline price just raised because of the politics in Africa...

I never meant to discuss politics on LinkedIn, honestly I'm not even interested so much in political topics in general, unless they have an economical output. If you read back, my comments related to politics all are reactive to opinions that should not be expressed here, first because they are political, second because they ask for strong reactions...for the reasons I already explained in my previous post.

With due respect, I don't think that this was something we could just close our eyes, ears and mouth and move on. Because if we do that, tomorrow another one will feel entitled to throw another stone in the pond to see if it makes waves.

Nikolay Kryachkov LION TopLinked nkryachkov at gmail.com • You seem not ready to support freedom of speech and consider different viewpoints politely. It is even funny, because you are trying to prosecute me in extremism after my comment about Wall Street researches by Mr Antony C. Sutton. You are like at the communist or comsomol meeting - "we got your logic ..." - and, as I can see, therefore you can not hide your background from the past you mentioned.

Let me remind you:

1. You are not a judge to judge me and you do not represent LinkedIn. I was invited to join this group.

2. You are too politically anxious and not a diplomat. If you can not argue my opinion, it is your problem.

4. Do read my profile carefully - I am an INDEPENDENT expert accredited by Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation. They do not pay me and I represent myself only. Regarding the state sport institution - please ask them and you can suggest them to retire me :) I shall have a rest :)

Your "what is your purpose?" sounds very interesting. Do you ask questions with known answers?

Nikolay Kryachkov LION TopLinked nkryachkov at gmail.com • 3. I started from some conclusion that Russia can be considered as a continent which is a term of geography. But some of my opponents dislike Moscow not only as a possible center of such a continent but itself. They dislike, but I am an extremist, as it was said. What can I do? :)

Catalin Lascu • Your opinions are all black on white above, same are mine.

I am not the judge, nor asking the group to judge you...If you read carefully top-down, unlike you, I have commented your "polite" opinions, not your person. I have expressed my opinion on yours, and gave you sufficient arguments. Well, actually is not even entirely my opinion, I just adhered to the opinion of countries that literally classify opinions like yours as extremist. So you did not insult only me.

It doesn't matter if you're "independent", when you write on your profile you're working for the institution. Which implies sharing opinions.

Would appreciate if you could cease addressing to me in any way....definitely in any insulting way.

Nikolay, I have to support Catalin's position.
With all my respect to your position, I have remind you that if you was invited to join the group, pls. respect group members, follow groups rules or common behavior, and do not destroy discussions with off topic claims and insulting of other opinions. I also suppose that your rhetorics went too far off groups spirit, style and common sense.
Posted by Remigijus Gineitis

Catalin Lascu • Nikolay, your opinions are all above, black on white, same are mine. I am not a judge, nor asking the group to judge you...

If you read carefully top-down, unlike you, I have commented your "polite" opinions, not your person. I have expressed my opinion on yours, and gave you sufficient arguments I believe . Well, actually is not even entirely my opinion, I just adhered to the opinion of countries that literally classify opinions like yours as extremist. So you did not insult only me. No matter what you think freedom of speech is, this is what stands out from your postings.

Moreover, Remigijus tried too, in a different way indeed, to suggest that your postings are unaproppriate. Same Peter, even if less direct, told us we should stop.

So I would appreciate if you could cease addressing to me in any way....definitely in any insulting way.

PS - It doesn't matter if you're "independent", when you write on your profile you're working for the institution, it implies sharing opinions .

Nikolay Kryachkov LION TopLinked nkryachkov at gmail.com • If you're insisting on my "polite" opinions, please do provide the examples.

If you use a term "extremist", please provide its legal definition first. We, as far as I understand, are at the territory of the US where, as far as I understand, freedom of speech is a value.

You do not understand what independent expert means in my case and in my country - a subject of my expertise is corruption genes in the projects of documents created by the President, Prime Minister and Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation. I work for finding truth. What "sharing opinions"? Are you OK?

Iulian Bulintis • Nikolay , usually, discussion like this should be better if it's about the polite and about the diplomacy ...in your position , to work as expert for justice agency of russian government , it is certainly need that you use the diplomacy point in this kind of actions ...nobody said that the freedom of speech is not your way and right but every body wants to keep some level of comments becous here we are for friendship and partenerships not for judgement of the nations history ...let the agressivity away and let talk and enjoy for this free talking , it's certainly better for all of us !

Nikolay Kryachkov LION TopLinked nkryachkov at gmail.com • Remigijus, it is new for me that you and your colleague have monopolised the voices of the group members. It is your group and you decide. No problems.

I have my own group "For Knowledge Persons" with many members, my concept "Knowledge Person" was used during the US elections :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fRjtAK66as

I shall definitely stop talking to you. What to say? You are studying democracy and pluralism. When you will be prepared welcome to join the Knowledge Persons ;)

Nikolay Kryachkov LION TopLinked nkryachkov at gmail.com • Iulian, I understood - to discuss Russia as a continent and Europe as its part is extremism and not diplomatic, even agressive in insulting. To discuss Russia as a part of Europe is OK. Thank you!

Iulian Bulintis • Nikolay , I didn't say something about EUROPE OR rUSSIA AS CONTINENT AND WHICH OF THEM ARE PART OF OTHER...take a look , I say completelly differites words and didn't have got some bad ideas about your opinnion...please stop to acuse anybody , Russia is not worse then others but this not enaugh for this linkedin comments...

Nikolay,
as you directed open letter to me personally, pls. read again, what you just wrote. I hope it is very important for all group members. Thank you!
Off course it seems anyone didn't find any source to learn democracy and pluralism but in Russia. Thanks for inspiring discussion. Good luck!
Posted by Remigijus Gineitis

Nikolay Kryachkov LION TopLinked nkryachkov at gmail.com • Iulian, I told you - "Thank you!" What a problem? Let's discuss what the exact center of Europe can do for better economy - print new money, give new loans, create new jobs, etc, If you do not mind.

Nikolay Kryachkov LION TopLinked nkryachkov at gmail.com • "Nikolay Kryachkov LION TopLinked nkryachkov at gmail.com • Remigijus, it is new for me that you and your colleague have monopolised the voices of the group members. It is your group and you decide. No problems.

I have my own group "For Knowledge Persons" with many members, my concept "Knowledge Person" was used during the US elections :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fRjtAK66as

I shall definitely stop talking to you. What to say? You are studying democracy and pluralism. When you will be prepared welcome to join the Knowledge Persons ;) "


"Remigijus Gineitis • Nikolay,
as you directed open letter to me personally, pls. read again, what you just wrote. I hope it is very important for all group members. Thank you!
Off course it seems anyone didn't find any source to learn democracy and pluralism but in Russia. Thanks for inspiring discussion. Good luck! "

To be clear for the group members:

The group "For Knowledge Persons" is in the US.

I live in Russia, in St Petersburg and say there what I want. What should I do, if it is a fact?

Iulian Bulintis • So , I think is better to stop this stupid discussion...you are not fair with ,,thank you''...you certainly knew what you wolud wanna say with that thank you...it was about right or wrong to consider Russia as part of Europe!....

Nikolay Kryachkov LION TopLinked nkryachkov at gmail.com • Well, again I am guilty :)

Iulian Bulintis • ,,to discuss Russia as a continent and Europe as its part is extremism and not diplomatic, even agressive in insulting. To discuss Russia as a part of Europe is OK''...is this something else then I told ?...you have been not to feel guilty for nothing , as IO told , we are not here for some kind of judgement ...of nations or of persons but we all wanna start interesting talk about people , business or feelings ...who was earning something from fight or agressively debates?

Marco Monfils • Alrightie- its time to close the discussion. Nikolay is guilty. Some awesome input here, a great question by Peter

Iulian, please, if you do not like the discussion, don't engage any further, it's that simple. Feel free to state your case, clarify if you need, re-state if you must... and then let's move on.

We are all center of our very own Europe.

Nikolay Kryachkov LION TopLinked nkryachkov at gmail.com • Dear Iulian, my comments that English dictionary gives a reason to name Russia a continent was compared with extremism and crime. I am not agree and protect my right for this opinion. This protection itself is being considered as insulting the group members and agressive behavior, though I did not say that current Russian regime should absorb your young democracies (nobody will do it, I think, just because of wasting of time and resources). It was a fantasy of some commentators here, the insulting me and my country. The insulting fantasy because I did not comment the regimes in the CEE countries (I only said that the UK is not mature democracy because is a kingdom).

I do not want apology from people with so rich fantasy, but I only thought that tact and culture of difference is being supported here. It was my mistake. Sorry.

Nikolay Kryachkov LION TopLinked nkryachkov at gmail.com • Marco, thank you for inviting me in this group. You probably knew the reason for that. We never contacted before your invitation. Who suggested?

Marco Monfils • Hi Nikolay, that was a joke, the guilty that is. I'm happy you joined.

To go back to your statement, this group is for mature and immature adults with a mature sense of cultural difference.

and, no, we don't need apologies to express our differences, as it is your right to have an opinion, kingdom or not.

thanks for participating, but I'd like to move on now

Nikolay Kryachkov LION TopLinked nkryachkov at gmail.com • You decide :)

Iulian Bulintis • Nikolay , I GET IT ...no doubt for your intention, it's ok...
Marco , I have not been here for the jokes ...you must to decide yourself or to sustain your opinnion like a maturely man...please considerr all my goodwillings !

Catalin Lascu • I apologize to all group members, I promised to not reply anymore to such approach..., but I noticed only now there was another insult, a very personal one, and I really must reply to that.

Quoting Nikolay: "You are like at the communist or comsomol meeting - "we got your logic ..." - and, as I can see, therefore you can not hide your background from the past you mentioned. "

Just to let you know, I have refused twice to join the communist party, first in 1981 when I was a student, second in 1988, when I was employed in a state owned software company, and knowing that such refusal will at least block my career, if not my freedom. Maybe childish, but I am still proud for this.

While exactly at that time, you Mr. "Freedom of Speech" , as it is clearly stated in your profile, you were in the Soviet Army, right? And not in compulsory army service. Definitely zero connection with communist party and plenty of freedom of speech.

Shouldn't we talk rather of what your fellow Russians did these days on the mobile bridge in front of the FSB building in Sankt Petersburg ?

Nikolay Kryachkov LION TopLinked nkryachkov at gmail.com • Ha-ha-ha!!! You can't stop to improvise, Catalin.

I was excluded from comsomol by the members of A. Chubais and E. Gaidar liberal reform group in 1986 and after that was taken in the Soviet Army for the compulsory service.

http://knowledgeperson.blogspot.com/2011/03/20.html

My career was blocked and is blocked now. I am private person with some contracts.

My great-grandfather once saved life of the last Russian Emperior Nikolay II probably in Vilnius.

http://knowledgeperson.blogspot.com/2010/02/ii.html

My far ancestor participated in liberation of Balkans in 19 century as a church diplomat.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B5%D0%BE%D1%84%D0%B0%D0%BD_%D0%97%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA

There wasn't communists in my family.

But let's to respect Marco, at least, and close the discussion.

Catalin Lascu • Nikolay, my sincere apologies, I didn't know that " Chief Financial Service / Soviet Army / Military industry / Accounting and money related issues in the military unit"
meant compulsory service after exclusion from comsomol.

Also my respects to your anti-communist ancestors...some of mine ended in Siberian gulag unfortunately.

I stopped.

Marco Monfils • DISCUSSION CLOSED - if its alright with Peter. thanks guys

this is a good place to uncover perceptions, facts, and possibly unblock careers too. But let's not blame everyone for their ancestors, nationality, or physical location for that matter."


Хуже то, что не знал. Оказывается, согласно С. Е. Кургиняну, после Сталина никому СССР не был нужен. Русская уменьшительная "партия" (ленинградцы) были против "чурок" и за вступление в Европу, Берия за "чурок" в окраинах и за паритет русских и "чурок" в Москве. Ельцин за РФ - Европу, Горбачев - за развал СССР и РФ. ПГУ стирало валюту своих агентов и откатывало ее своим для будущей приватизации. Бонзы советского ВПК гнали металл на Запад тоже для накопления валюты и приватизации. Завлабы и комсомольцы служили им всем.

И что?

За 20 лет РФ в своей целостности к Европе не приблизилась. Поэтому С. Е. Кургинян и заговорил.

Спец история. Реформы Гайдара. Выпуск 2 from ECC TV on Vimeo.

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